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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
601
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Posted - 2013.11.27 00:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
90% webs are insanely OP and do need to be nerfed at the very least but maybe making serpentis a more shield focused very fast blaster line is more interesting ... since armour and blasters aren't a very good combo anyway.... speed and gank is a nice alternative...
Also the fact that blood raiders line also has the 90% web atm means they could still keep one line with it maybe reduced to 75% web or change it it too web range like the Bhaalgorn has.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
601
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Posted - 2013.11.27 14:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:You guys really don't need to lose your minds so far ahead of time.
We haven't said anything specific about any of this and that's because we aren't actually making any changes yet. Webs might change some, they might not. We have to put in time actually looking at the problem and go through a process before we have something concrete to ask for feedback on.
have you thought about changing serpentis to shield based blasterboats at all ... since CCP have recognised armour and blasters are a bad combo?? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
601
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Posted - 2013.11.27 15:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
perhaps they could get a visual make over too along with shield tank too help separate them from gallente and make them more unique Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
603
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Posted - 2013.11.27 17:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:The way web affects eve damage and hit probability formulas 90% speed reduction web is most certainly owerpowered. For example if we use web to control angular velocity of target ,90% web compared to 60% web, is equivalent of 400% tracking speed bonus. Normal tracking bonuses at 7.5% / level come only at pathetic 35% tracking at lvl 5, order of magnitude more inferior then that web bonus.
Similarly if that web bonus is used to control range in 1v1 AB frig fight, each with normal speed of 1 km/s, that gives 300 m/s speed advantage to 90% web frig. Even if other frig has dual webs (~75% speed reduction) it could still not compete with single 90% web bonus.
In fact one could argue that even default web effect of up to 60% speed reduction is unbalanced, and 90% most certainly is so.
a great post here with some rational maths and logic to explain why 90% webs are OP and even 60% webs are too strong compared too every other tracking bonus/modules .... i would advocate nerfing at least 10% off all webs so a max of 50% on T2 webs only which should require lv5 prop jamming skill too use too accentuate how strong a mechanic webs are too tracking targets..
T1 web .... 37.5% 9.5km base range meta 1-4 ...... 40 - 45% ... with different roles like less cpu, cap usage, more range etc.. T2 web ... 50% with slight range reduction to 9km Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
604
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Posted - 2013.11.27 21:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Actually..
Webs in general are rather overpowered compared to other EWAR. Thanks for supporting this assertion with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL. Your statement only applies to range-bonused webs, which only like 2 ships can use. Your assertion is irrelevant to this topic. Because ECM *totally* doesn't disable you completely from range. Because Neutralizers *totally* don't make it so you can't activate 1/2 of all weapon types and any other module. Because Sensor Dampeners *totally* don't prevent you from targeting beyond a pathetic range, or taking a few minutes to target a frigate. The only offensive E-War I would put BELOW webs are target painters. Which only really help in large fleets. You obviously don't PvP much.
well when you think about it .. you can avoid fighting e-war ships if you want .. but you can't avoid fighting any ship with mids can you??? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
604
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Posted - 2013.11.28 18:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I think there's a couple of problems with you OP, but I can see that there's a bit of confusion stemming from how quickly the question got answered in a AMA format.
I'll start by confirming that some kind of change to the Serpentis and Blood Raider web bonus is something we have been thinking about for a while.
Web strength bonuses are some of the most powerful bonuses available to any ship, which makes them very interesting and valuable but also makes some of their results problematic. Interestingly, the way the strength of the bonus presents itself is very different in different contexts. At the frigate level with the Daredevil, the power of 90% webs primarily comes from range control. At the battleship level with the Vindicator it primarily comes from transversal control (especially when used as a force multiplier). At the cruiser level it falls in the middle and ends up being (relatively speaking) less powerful and less oppressive as a result. I am not going to try to claim that we have our plan of action worked out, and there will be plenty of discussion before we implement our Pirate ship balance pass.
One thing I can say for sure though is that we consider the solo Daredevil and the force multiplier Vindicator to both be too strong in their current states, and that we recognize that the primary source of their disproportionate power is the web bonus (for different reasons as I said above).
Another thing I can say for sure is that we will never base our design decisions on what Nyancat has stockpiled or not stockpiled. i know i wont get any likes for this. but the web bonus needs to go. I understand why it was done back with the nano nerf back in the day. but it seems like the bonus is just pure op. now with the other op bonus (resistance) you guys just reduced the amount. this could also be done like a 7.5% per level. or you could just go something new like a falloff bonus... it would **** off alot of people though it would help with the frig keep range and it would help with the transeversal for the bs
i'll give you a like for this 90% webs are OP and need a nerf .. and webs in general need a rebalance.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
604
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Posted - 2013.11.28 18:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Harvey James wrote:i'll give you a like for this 90% webs are OP and need a nerf .. and webs in general need a rebalance.. Can you explain what's so op with 90% webs when a Bhaalgorn can neut over 3k cap in one cycle with 3 neuts? Because getting capped out by a Bhaalgorn prevents you from using your guns (if they use cap), it prevents you from MWD'ing, it prevents you from doing anything pretty much while a 90% web can only slow your ship down. I'm not sure what's more op here actually.
mm.. true maybe 15% is too strong and needs a nerf also.. i would also like too see neuts get a range nerf 25km is too high
small ... 6.3km medium ... 9.6km large .... 12.9km Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
604
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 20:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think CCP realise that all the pirate ships needs rebalancing ... angels needs a speed nerf .. sansha need more everything.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
605
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Posted - 2013.11.29 22:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
i think e-war should be falloff based..... so further you get into your falloff the weaker the strength and higher the cap usage on e-war mods... but is always effective i.e. can't miss.
the point being if you want the full effect/potency of your mods .. say ecm you have to keep in your optimal range which should be shrinked so maybe 20km optimal 60km falloff basic mod/skills .... thus making e-war a risk - reward tradeoff sit at 80km in your falcon but lose a lot of ecm strength and much higher cap usage but at least your relatively safe .... or stay in your optimal which might be 30km with skills/ range rigs and get full strength normal cap usage but are in a much more precarious place in terms of safety.....
this could be applied to neuts/webs. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
610
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Posted - 2013.12.05 18:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Stasis webifier effects do indeed have a stacking penalty. It's actually a good point that we should add a mention of that fact to their descriptions.
mm.. any intention on rebalancing webs ... a 10% nerf too strength would be nice and mixing the metas up into roles so they are all useful one way or another ?? - range -strength -cap usage -lower cpu requirement
and making the T2 web/mods in general actually need lv5 so its more consistent... ?? Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
610
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Posted - 2013.12.05 19:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:NightmareX wrote:Tawa Suyo wrote:NightmareX wrote:90% web effect isn't any more overpowered than 100% longer web range Please explain how a web range bonus allows blap dreads to track ab hacs (or even ab frigates) in the same way that a 90% web does? Dreads are not pirate ships. Just saying. This is true. However I dont think anyone besides you has ever argued that the only metric for balance should be intra-class balance. And multiple people have said in this thread "90% webs are super broken, but when you nerf them you have to give the serpentis line something else" That something else will probably take the form of a falloff or tracking bonus (or even both), unless Fozzie decides to do something more exotic.
shield tanked fast and ganky would be nice like a hyped up shield thorax ... and leave the web strength with the blood raiders instead or blood raiders could be web range instead across the board instead of only bhaal having it ... it would match with scorch and neut range bonus 15km sweet spot of neuts, webs and lasers.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
612
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Posted - 2013.12.08 17:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
in fact thinking about other e-war like ecm/ TD's etc.... it makes me think webs should also be moved towards the same area.
so normal webs could be fairly weak on normal ships and much more cap heavy on use
-T1 webs 30 - 35% strength 9-11km range cpu and cap reductions based on roles of metas
Faction webs 37- 40% strength 11-13km range
T2 web 42.5% strength 9km range requires prop jamming skill lv5 higher cpu and cap requirements
Hyena/Recons cap reduction bonuses and range
Serpentis line 7.5% web strength bonus with emphasis on shields and speed
Blood Raider line 10% web range bonus 10% neut strength and range bonus Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
618
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Posted - 2013.12.11 18:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nag'o wrote:GallowsCalibrator wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Stasis webifier effects do indeed have a stacking penalty. It's actually a good point that we should add a mention of that fact to their descriptions. Sup, idle thought of the day here, would adding a flat max velocity penalty as well as stacking penalties help slightly? (So that only up to 90% of velocity can ever be reduced in total.) Should at least help reduce the 'you are completely boned forever' if you get two 90% webs on you. I can see CCP removing a Vindicator mid slot before fiddling with something like that. Wich is not bad... as long as they add another high with a 9th turret slot on it.
:) i would rather see serpentis line get shield tanked instead here's why :- 1. armour + blasters are a bad combo --shortest range + armour slowing it's speed/ ability to close range 2. its would provide a difference between gallente ships like the megathron and the vindi 3. with a web strength bonus and being shield tanked limiting its free mid slots is a good idea an 8-7-5 layout with a 5% web strength bonus Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
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